Based on my observations at an outdoor shopping mall where I do storefront windows I’d say the scratches have definitely grown. I could sorta see them when I took the accounts over. Now they a visable from a distance. They could say I did it based on the new and improved visibility factor. Scary stuff. No way the guys who scratched these window did this damage because they would have heard it and seen it. Thanks Gary.
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When you’re trying to decide whether tempered glass just got scratched - does it matter whether on not the scratches will look worse later?
No. -
When you’re trying to decide if you - or any other window cleaner - should have seen tempered glass scratches - does it matter if the scratches look worse now than they did at the time?
No. -
Do you require clients to sign a heat-treated glass scratch liability waiver?
Only on occasion determined on age of windows and amount of debris among other factors. For me not a yes or no answer. So, answer is - No/Yes.
Usually coatings feel different, and they reflect light differently than uncoated. That’s something a lot of people could help you with, but I’m hoping not to get pulled into “how-to” stuff in this thread.
(Including steel wool.)
Your client owns the glass. They hired you to do it, and signed your waiver.
No waiver? Scrapers are ubiquitous. They expected you to scrape - that’s why their first instinct was to blame you for doing it wrong and they only found out manufacturers were serious when they complained about possibly getting poor quality HARD TO CLEAN tempered glass.
Two reasons.
1 - It applies to window cleaners who won’t admit their preference is to scrape.
2 - If a scraper did cause those tempered glass scratches you’re accused of making - they’re going to accuse you of scraping and lying about it.
3 - If you own scrapers, your employees might us them when you’re not looking. I know a guy who got called into the construction trailer to watch video the builder took of his workers using scrapers.
Dunno - Their scientists have known since 1993, but I guess it’s not your average glass scientist’s job to warn window cleaners.
The IWCA hired a glass scientist 4 or 5 years ago - I wonder if he’s one of those who knew.
You mean if you start to worry about your waiver sticking?
I’m not a lawyer - but if you’re worried, you should be worried.
No waiver - don’t even start.
I appreciate your saying so - thanks.
So if its impossible to know if scratching will occur or not with razoring the first time on glass shouldn’t we teach everyone not to get their windows painted for the holidays. I know of a couple customers that I scratched their glass because I had to scrape paint off of heat treated glass and I told them not to get it painted anymore or it will scratch even worse and they seemed to reciprocate.
You don’t need to ruin Christmas for anyone - just tell them you need them to sign a heat treated glass scratch waiver.
[MENTION=2940]Garry[/MENTION]
I can see that you’re not interested.
Since I began working to create awareness of problems with roller side defects on tempered glass, quite a few window cleaners have asked me to suggest solutions for people who refuse to believe some or all of the warning.
I don’t go there.
Thank you for the info!
I think I am the only Garry with two “r’s” in his name here. Where do you get the assumption that I am “not interested?”
Gary Mauer is just full of assumptions. Don’t take it personally. You asked a question that made him uncomfortable, so he dismisses you. It’s just his way. Don’t mind him. I don’t think he can help it.
I just assumed you meant exactly what you said.
Then your “No” answers to those direct questions about time-delayed tempered glass scratch growth confirmed your lack of interest in what I’m trying to explain.
I’m not saying you’re not interested in anything - but you’re obviously not interested in what I’ve been trying to tell you.
Mr Gary Mauer - your assumptions prove to me of your arrogance. No matter what your background; no matter what your knowledge; no matter what superiority you feel you have makes you a bore. Your set up of only “a yes or no answer” proves your shallowness. The no answer was because IMO any scratches on a customers glass are unacceptable if they can be avoided. The type of person who is only arrogantly willing to accept simple one word answers is in fact himself not interested and more importantly not interesting. What knowledge I may have felt prior that I could gain from you is severely diminished by your holyier than thou attitude. You sir are now reduced to the train wreck interest in this thread just as Bozo Rob did with his. Not much difference.
Sorry Chris. I think you have a great resource in this forum as many others do as well, but I have lost respect for your poster boy in this thread.
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When you’re trying to decide whether tempered glass just got scratched - does it matter whether on not the scratches will look worse later?
No…No, a scratch is a scratch. -
When you’re trying to decide if you - or any other window cleaner - should have seen tempered glass scratches - does it matter if the scratches look worse now than they did at the time?
No…No, a scratch is a scratch. -
Do you require clients to sign a heat-treated glass scratch liability waiver?
Only on occasion determined on age of windows and amount of debris among other factors. For me not a yes or no answer. So, answer is - No/Yes…Older windows with scratches on them already are pointed out to the client before cleaning. New CCU does require a waiver - hence No/Yes smart a$$.
So - you insist I’m wrong about your lack interest in time-delayed tempered glass scratch growth, while also flatly refusing to consider the concept.
Whatever that is - do you really need to be this angry?
Good god man you are blind to any words but your own. In no way am I saying that I have a lack of interest in “time-delayed tempered glass scratch growth” or any other form of causes to scratched glass. In fact I find it quite interesting being as we are in the business to be interested in this stuff. I IN NO WAY flatly refuse to consider any concept. Take a deep breath and relax a little.
Now your words - is this a concept or a true fact? With your words and your arrogance I find myself questioning information that is presented in such a way that makes you appear to be a chest thumper - whether it comes from you or any person on the planet. People who act like this usually - I’ll admit not always - but usually think overly high of themselves. For that I’m skeptical now, where I wasn’t a day or so ago. There is more than one expert in the field and I would well imagine he/she could present their knowledge in a more informative manner without trying to off the audience.
Wouldn’t hurt for you take a step back and analyze your approach. Peace to you.
Of course it’s a fact.
I posted a before and after picture, and a couple of links from the glass community, along with an explanation of how I happen to know.
People can go back and check that out because they’re interested.
I’ll check again with the builder in a week, last time we spoke he said all the windows were recently replaced and are brand new w/ “LIFETIME WARRANTY” I asked him - who’s lifetime the company’s or the home owners … he shook his head and laughed said good point 
@Gary Mauer not avoiding the answer, jus’ been working every day don’t have all this free time to get on here and post like some of these other boys do.
Call me anytime to discuss the question …
I agree with double r’s on scratching glass affecting the customer and being important or whatever he said. But I also understand the importance of scratched glass growth and why when I was done scraping paint off certain windows there appeared to be no scratches. A week later the customer fired me because of the scratches and I swore up and down they were not there from me because I didn’t see them at the time. I got rehired and they no longer paint their windows. Had I been more experienced at the time (this was 5 years ago) I would have stopped and found alternative methods to scraping to avoid further ruining the windows. But I had no idea I was scratching because the scratches showed much worse over the course of a few days or, perhaps even less time but they weren’t noticed for a few days.
Sounds like it, but don’t be too hard on yourself
If that’s what happened there was not another window cleaner in the world at the time who understood.
