Waiver and Scraping

So you show your custy the waiver but then you see the stamp on the window. Being that you showed the waiver do you scrape and see or just mop it?

Thats a good question…I would like to know too.
Gonna be doing a job on monday, seen the stamp for Oldcastle (and already scratched up).

Educate the customer that you can’t no whether FD is there or not. You need the waiver signed because of a potential problem and then clean the glass. If there are already scratches that I can see I get a preexisting conditions waiver signed as well. Even if you think you know the glass is defective never tell them that as it puts you in the liability loop if they “all of a sudden” have scratching. On first cleans (even w/ a wfp) I likely will need to scrape at least some of the windows.
Old Castle is the worst but I just get the waiver signed and do what I have to so the glass is cleaned. I’m not about to try to fix someone else’s issues.

Perfect. Thanks Tony.

I usually tell them and show them the widow and ask them what they would rather me do…weather it be scrape the whole thing or spot scrape (carefully) the most visible gunkings, or just mop it & move on. It’s better to be straight with your customers than not getting any sleep at night…they’ll appreciate it!

I disagree. I will tell you why.
Its not that you are not being straight with them. If you have educated them on the issue (which you HAVE to do to get the waiver signed anyway) since you can’t know for sure if there is FD or not, even spot scraping them could make scratches if there is FD in that area, don’t you think?

If the waiver is signed, I’m sleeping like a baby…:slight_smile:

Excellent points Tory! There is no such thing as safe spot scraping! It’s a myth just like using a plastic scraper (two of the dumbest suggestions to avoid FD I’ve ever heard).

I agree with what yourself & Tory are saying, however I did not mention in my post NOT to have a FD waiver in place and signed. I get my FD waiver signed before I even get into price with customers and WILL NOT even unlaod equipment until I get their signature. Once they have been educated of FD it opens the communication lines a little more. I did 24 (dirty) picture windows for this guy who signed my waiver and reassured me it was his call and his choice to have them totally cleaned and O.K.'ed the use of razors…and what ever means necessary to make them shine. Other customers will decline use of razors and simply live with a “pretty clean” window. I was just trying to say that straight forward communication before,during and after the job is important…and most certainly get the FD waiver signed and don’t claim to have identified FD on a window(s), as this could create a potential problem in the future (just say you never know which windows have it and which don’t). A waiver a day keeps the lawyers away!

If you always get the waiver signed then why let the customer say no razors? I won’t do a half clean (leaving somethings on the glass because they don’t want a razor used). They sign the waiver and I clean the window. If they are educated and sign the waiver then I only need to talk to them when the job is done. If I did the education right at first then I don’t need to hold their hand thru the process (not to mention the extra time that takes). I guess I need a little clarification from you on why you would get the waiver signed and then not use a razor???

I get the waiver signed regardless. but sometimes the customer will tell me not to go into as much detail on certain windows but more on others. Like you I would prefer to scrape (if necessary) and really clean all the glass the right way to provide the best result. This however is not always what the customer wants (and since I already have the waiver sig. and they are FD educated) they sometimes still would rather pick and choose what windows they want to look really sharp and others that are no as high on the list of priority…and they are paying me the same for what I mop, spot scrape, or totally scrape, I save a little time here and there which makes my day easier and still collect the quoted fee. I guess some customers would rather me concentrate on specific windows and will be satisfied with “pretty clean” glass in other less visible areas…who knows? I just do what the customer wants, we discuss FD, I get the necessary waivers signed, they tell me what they want exactly, I tell them how much, I do the job…we all end up happy!

Tory will you still be razoring regardless… prior to sleeping like a baby? Deep down we all know the sound feel, etc. Not that it can always be detected at the point of cleaning. But when we have that gut feeling, I personally can’t continue razoring without discretion. Just me

So with a signed waiver do you razor all tempered glass? If it was my house and I had the choice of having tempered glass with some paint spots or a couple of artillery fungus spores on it or a bunch or scratches I’ll take the paint and spores over scratches. If the window has a ton of overspray or alot of stuff on it then I’d say go ahead and scrape. It comes across to me like you don’t really care if you scratch up the windows. Have you ever actually scratched a window? If you have did you tell the customer? Is it really that much extra time to say to the customer, ‘this company is notorious for producing poorly tempered glass would you rather I not scrape it?’ I would think it would help in building customer loyalty more than just scraping away and having to tell the customer afterwards that the windows are now scratched.

what happens even if you have a waiver and scratch the **** out of someones glass, just bill them and say oh sorry you signed the waiver. if this happened to me i wouldnt be sleeping like a baby, eventhough your covered you still destroyed all their glass

Thanks for your answers guys. So let’s say the glass is so dirty you can’t see preexisting scratches, do you still have them sign the preexisting waiver and the fabricating debris waiver to be safe? Tony in your findings in the field do most people want clean glass with potential scratches or junk left on the windows and no scratches? I’ve never heard/felt the result of FD because I’m still fairly new but the mere thought of it scares the crap outta me. I just wanna make sure I have my poop in a group so to speak.

Tory, what are your plans for approach on your Monday job?

So how does it work if the customer signs my glass waiver, can they go after my insurance company if they believe I scratched their glass?

Jesse

I might be a little under educated on this subject. I just scrape paint spots when I see em. If I go into heavy scraping I’ll do a waiver. But a few spots on each window, should I be getting the waiver signed?

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again I don’t do alternatives or half cleans. I don’t offer the “I won’t scrape these windows because they might scratch” approach. If others want to they can. I get the waiver signed to protect me from a defective product they purchased. In almost every case someone has been there before me so the chances of scratches already being present are high if they have bad glass. I’d rather not get blamed for them w/ no waiver signed.
I’m not indifferent to their potential problem but I didn’t make, install, or buy the bad product so I need to protect myself. Remember we don’t scratch the windows the defect does and we can’t ever positively know if it’s there or not. I’m not aware of any windows I’ve cleaned being scratched from FD. Doesn’t mean they haven’t but since they are only visible in certain light situations they may have never been seen. I have customers whose windows I’ve cleaned for the last 5 years and had no complaints about scratches from any of them.
I know there is no totally satisfying way to deal w/ the FD problem we all have to do what is best for our situation. In my case that means no waiver no work and I use a razor to clean tough debris off windows no exceptions.

I have never encountered a window that could not be cleaned up with steel wool, from concrete to silicone to paint. So for somebody to just blow through bad glass with a scraper makes me want to puke

The scraper is the industry standard tool for cleaning difficult debris from glass. Even the glass manufacturing industry uses scrapers (ironically they are the largest purchasers of scrapers). Evidently you go about just assuming every tempered pane is bad. None of us can identify defective glass w/out a microscopic examination and I’d bet you don’t do that.
As for using steel wool on concrete I hope you use an acid or other chemical to loosen the bond on the glass otherwise you could in fact be causing scratches that are you fault. Scratches from FD are the fault of the tempering facility and no one else.

I bought someones glass because I f’ed it up posted that on here, and then these guys heckled me for it.

AND your waiver is not even a gaurenteed cover! Court is a gamble verdicts can go either way. So if the judge , jury or mediator just had some hack ruin his/her/their ocean/mountain/lake/river/desert/whatever view and then sent them into a drawn out ordeal (w/ contractors, window manufacturers, window installers or god for bid wiindow cleaners(or at this level window washers)) that took some serious time to staighten out, that piece of paper may be better used as toilet paper.