Sparked by cactus27 comment.
I know you guys are crazy about your wfp. And i have and use mine occasionally. But does everyone think this? there might be a thread for this topic i missed. Sure a shitload of water will clean anything, but poorer quality? How can u compare detailed edges, wiping down frames, getting things inside sills that your fancy brush just cant see while youre on the ground.
Short term? See above, and also for me, first time customers that agree to multiple cleans, the first clean gets scraped in and out. Guarnteed my scraped window will remove more and last longer side by side to your wfd washed.
More dangerous? Ok ill buy that for a buck. But its physically more demanding for myself. We jump outta the truck at the same time and id have a dozen windows done huckin around my 24’ before you even got your hoses flowing. Would you catch up ? Yea probly. But then you miss stuff, double back here, there. Oh whats that im in the truck ready to go and youre still wrapping up your hoses. Theres many other reasons i can prove, but you get the drift.
I get it. Theres many times for it. Commercial mostly. But i live in an area full of yuppie dicks who are very particular, hand wash is more legit in their eyes. Mine too. Its the art, the skill they pay highly for. Not some kk.
This will be interesting to read how it pans out, as I plan on having a WFP in the future. Or will I now? Lol.
Should read, this thread will be interesting to read how it pans out.
Thanks tips 
i do almost all residential and all residential get wfp. i am convinced it is overall better safer and a longer lasting clean. when explained well customers believe it and confirm it’s longer lasting.
if you are not convinced personally i don’t think you can convince your customers and would questions the ethics of convincing someone of something you do not believe yourself.
so for those convinced trad is better…stick with it.
most are still trad here and i love it gives me a tremendous advantage.
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I have noticed it is longer lasting, especially through rain.
I am convinced i make more money without it. And i have no problem whatsoever selling wf. When explained well just means you can bullshit. Because a customer, who calls you, the professional, because they do not know about windows, cannot “confirm” they stay cleaner longer. A window stays cleaner longer, by having less on it for it to stick too. Nothing removes better than a scraper. Im in window tinting, have been from day one, and in that, glass must be fukn perfect to install, it can make me a bit too picky when im just washing. But that pole wont remove paint splatter, mulch pores. You can take it as an advantage all you like. When it comes to residential, Ill always call it the lazy way out.
So if you’re convinced that everyone else is wrong and lazy, why ask the question?
I’m with Jared- your mind is made up. Why even bring this up? Have a rough day?
Lol dude he unrelatedly brought it up in a thread for a sale item. I simply commented on his comment comparing methods. He took a step further questioning my ethics.
As far as frames and sills…you brush the frames with the wfp, so they get cleaned very nicely. And the sills get flushed with so much water they end up clean without even trying.
As far as which method keeps the windows clean the longest, there are too many factors to easily do an objective test. Logic tells me the wfp wins because there’s no soap residue, which definitely holds dirt. But honestly, I doubt any customer will notice the difference between if the windows stay cleaner a week longer or shorter. If you really want clean windows all the time, you’d have to do like in Europe and get them cleaned monthly. If you only get them cleaned once or twice a year, clearly you’re willing to put up with dirty windows most of the time.
I only recently started using wfp and am already at least as fast with it as traditional. Most people have noticed it cuts their time in half. Even if my time stays the same, I’m happy to have less risk by not being on a ladder nearly as much. I’m also happy to have more variety in movement, rather than only squeegeeing all day.
I’m not removing paint specs on normal cleaning anyway, so I don’t care if the wfp can’t do that (it can with the right attachments).
Finally, let’s say it’s true that you can get better results with trad. Fine. Maybe in your area people really do look at their windows with a magnifying glass. I’ve been learning more and more, though, that it’s me that obsessing over the windows, not the customer. Half the time they are delighted and think I’m done when I haven’t even cleaned both sides yet. As gets repeated all the time, customers look through the glass, while window cleaners look at it. I’ve been trying to make it a habit to stand back and look through, not at, the windows from a few feet away just as a customer would. All the stuff I would see while staring at the glass from 8 inches away vanishes, and it just looks clear. My point is that even if wfp doesn’t get the same results, if they’re good enough to make the customer happy and you also enjoy the other benefits of using the tool, then it’s a win-win.
If you don’t, then fine. No one’s forcing you.
I’m curious. Do you have a water fed pole? If yes what brushes have you tried and what purification system do you have or have you used to compare it to traditional methods?
24 foot ladder wouldn’t even reach many of the homes we do. A WFP setup has been a life and time saver.
I don’t agree with the comments about it takes no skill. You don’t just spray pure water on them and be done with them. The many that have tried it and said it doesn’t work; didn’t take the time to perfect their skills. Also, WFP was designed to replace the mop and squeegee, not a razor blade (a whole other subject if you’re still blading every window).
I get super annoyed with these types threads. They usually lead to pointless banter, but it looks like I’m taking the bait
.I can’t stand people that say until they’re blue in the face: WFP are for lazy hacks (not say op was implying this) or you’re dumb for still using a squeegee. I’m middle of the road. I can go days without using it, or I may use it on three separate jobs in a day.
We are now regularly doing 4,000+ sq ft homes with difficult landscaping these days. A WFP setup helps us to get them done in a safe manner with my feet on the ground.
I know many many guys that can be wfping their third 3 window before you strap on your work belt and get that ladder off that ladder rack and ladder up to your first climb.
There is a place for both styles of cleaning glass.
Safety is a huge factor in our industry.
Learn to use both options correctly and you will benefit from it.
I was totally against WFP after being a trad cleaner for 15 years, but i have been totally converted, I even use it on single story homes… why? the ease. I can spent an hour cleaning all the insides jump on the outside and knock that out on 10-15 mins all the frames and edges come up WAY better than wiping all that crap, and like others have said paint and all construction debris if your removing all that for the same price as a standard clean then YOU ARE A FOOL!!! straight out no apologies.
And I guarantee that you scrapping every window WILL result sooner or later in scratched glass.
VIf using a WFP deems me lazy, then I’m the laziest MFer around. With tons of repeats . I guess people by me don’t mind lazy window cleaners that leave them with clean windows. SMH.
Look at me my windows are perfect. 
Just did a first clea the other day windows Weren’t cleaned in 10 years. All WFP. Check is in the mail. Rescheduled for next year. Another happy customer
Keep scraping An making them perfect. What is perfecr. Is it perfect to you. Is it perfect to the customers perception. It doesn’t look perfect to me. But joe thinks it’s perfect. When I hear these have to be perfect. My price of 450 goes up to 650.
your probually losing money cause your trying to make things perfect when good would of beeen good enough, an BTw. That first clean came out perfect in my eyes. Maybe not to your eyes , but to the customers eyes they were perfect, An secondly I’ve been doing this long enough to know when things need to be laddered, an done up close if I thought for a minute that the WFP was not doing the same job I could get from my squeegee I would never use it.
Quick story. I have a good friend that’s been in this business since the 80s. He is the guy that got me into this. He was total traditional just like this dude. I got into WFP , An kept telling him about it . He says to me WFP is for people who don’t know how to use ladders , An questions the quality of it . I kept on him about it he finally gave in. Now he has 4 poles 2 systems , An smiles ear to ear after each use.
Wow, a friendly debate turned into most of ya insulting my experience. I just thought id hear others sides and opinions. Yes i said in my first post i have and use mine. Its top of the line. I was professionally trained by manufacturer and im damn good with it. (Along with dozens of other courses on glass education, from pella to anderson to 3M, list goes on ) Yes perfection is a perception. Everyones definition of it is different. As far as losing money? Lol lol lol. No im no fool, my prices for that scraped clean are included in the agreed mutiple visit contract. Everyone is the best right? I dont claim to be the best, i always want to learn more and improve even after 15 years. After my overhead i clear an average of 3 grand a week. Yes my wfp contributes to that. But its not my bread n butter. Im not calling anyone a hack, and btw. The pole was not designed to replace mop n squeegee like u say… Manufacturers and reputable companies worldwide never claim that. Is it safer, no doubt, but it was not meant to replace the trade.
Poor choice of wording on my part. Perhaps I should have said to be used as a substitution for a mop and squeegee. As I mentioned I don’t use it a 100% on every job as well. I have seen these post/threads head south pretty fast, mainly on Facebook groups. Maybe that’s why some, including myself, got a little defensive.
I would say razors should be last resort . Steel wool , magic erasers are much safer . I have used trad methods for years on res. I have been using wfp since last fall and I have seen faster ,safer results plus we have almost doubled our man hour pay. I would say that there is a big learning curve with the wfp , not as big as trad but I’ve found most expect magical results with little effort. It all comes down to training and willing to understand how to use all of your tools for each job. Wfp isn’t the answer for everything but it’s definitely not a lazy tool…just another tool. Just my 2 cents .
