Gary: Is this why you run such a tight ship on the WCN forum? I’ve read the archives there and they are excellent, free of ALL mindless dribble.
Gary, please injoy your trip to the meeting/conference in Finland. I trust you to present the issue of scratches on tempered glass increasing in size over time in an intelligent, precise, and concise manner. You have my confidence.
Dale.
I don’t agree with that blanket statement.
If I am willing to use alternate methods on tempered glass for a higher fee, a customer may prefer that because he feels it’s the safer ‘bet’.
Or he may be willing to avoid the fear of scratched glass and accept less than perfect results by having me do my reasonable best without aggressive means to remove paint, stain etc.
That doesn’t necessarily indicate to me that he wants to sue me.
Thanks - I’ll try.
It’s part of my mission to point out that we are aware of roller side quality problems in general.
And part of that is to let them know we’ve discovered time-delayed tempered glass scratch growth.
(Their scientists have known since 1993.)
So they realize they’ll have to account for that in any cleaning guidelines or regulations.
(You can’t ONLY tell window cleaners to inspect immediately, if you know they ALSO need to wait.)
Another part is to keep reminding them that tempered glass quality makes sense for them, too.
The scraper test - and inspection with a microscope - is something they can use a bunch of ways.
It might be something they do only once - but might shock managers to action.
It might be something a senior manager starts to do when visiting various locations.
Or to check out their competition.
Or it could be something they implement company-wide in order to get factory workers involved in quality control.
(Most people want to do their jobs right, but they can’t fix a problem you don’t understand.)
And learn - I’m going to read everything and attend everything they have that pertains to cleaning, and see what I can bring back.
Thanks again for helping me get there.
When you seek/require a signed waiver;
Those who comply have decided to waive their right to sue.
Those who refuse have decided to reserve their right to sue.
If you don’t ask them to sign a waiver, you can assume anything you like about their intentions.
But if you’re doing all that for a customer, why wouldn’t they be happy to sign a waiver?
Maybe you didn’t ask - but why not?
Sometimes people who know they are right annoy people who think they are wrong. To each his own.
I’d rather not have any idle chatter about annoyance.
Unfortunately for you, you’re not in charge here. You haven’t seemed to grasp that concept yet.
When you’re right … Well you’re right. Thanks for all the fabulous info over the years on fabrication debris. Enjoy your trip to Finland.
When you explain to a customer the issue of FD they may decide they don’t want to take the chance that they got poor quality glass, and end up with scratched glass.
This space for rent!
Do they really want to nail you for scratched glass, even after you agree to clean windows their way?
Probably not - but there’s a big difference between a customer refusing to sign a waiver, and a customer never being asked.
Many window cleaners won’t ask for a waiver when it’s easy - only when they’re really worried.
Part of your scratch waiver for every job pitch can be that the tempered glass might already be scratched.
Two things a client will do if they discover scratches when you’re done;
1 - swear they were never there before
2 - spend a few hours examining every window they have, trying to find every scratch they can.
If you both realize they have never spent hours examining windows, you can explain that it’s not good business to assume there are no scratches.
Most of us can usually find something in the way of pre-existing scratches the customer was unaware of - and if necessary, use those to drive this point home.
Representing window cleaners at GPD Finland
At GPD in Finland June 12 -14, I will propose that fabricators use window cleaning scrapers to test their own tempered glass for fabricating defects that cause scratching. It’s my 3rd GPD presentation.
The scraper test and inspection with a microscope is a good way to get factory workers involved in quality control. It could be a management tool or the topic of a QA meeting. The key is to get them talking, and keep reminding fabricators that quality makes sense for them, too.
Part of my mission is to show we understand - defects on the roller side are causing a tempered glass scratch crisis, not scrapers.
Also, window cleaners are discovering something the glass industry has known about since 1993 - time-delayed tempered glass scratch growth - where scratches get more visible when you wait a few hours. (I first learned about it at GPD.) We have new doubts about guidelines warning cleaners to inspect for visible scratch, without warning about visible growth.
Why GPD Finland? That’s where you need to go, to tell the glass industry what it needs to hear. They are listening.
For more information: www.scratched-glass.net
[MENTION=3135]diamondridge[/MENTION] two days.
So, I was at the airport in Stockholm for a few hours the other day, and after I got settled in, I started looking around for scratches. (Didn’t see any.)
I got to watch a couple of airport window cleaners for a while, and got to speak with one of them.
Introduced myself, and asked if he had a scraper. He did – a Triumph MK3.
I mentioned the quality problem we have here with the roller side of tempered glass, and asked if they had any reservations about scraping any glass at the airport.
(And they don’t – there’s tempered glass everywhere, and nothing they can’t scrape.)
When I asked if they would scrape “anything”, at first he thought I meant, do they scrape “everything” - so he said “We don’t scrape everything - only if there’s ice cream or something.”
I just really like the way the way he said that. The guy gets it.
Keeping a scraper handy is the smartest and most efficient way to get most gunk off glass.
It’s faster than extra scrubbing – lots faster than presoaking and scrubbing, chemicals or pads.
Same simple strategy whatever you discover on a window – paint, stickers, artillery fungus, dried ice cream – who cares?
Scrape it off right away and move on.
Here in the US, scraping is perfectly normal, too – but we have people trying to change that – suggesting scraper use is an aggressive method that should be considered “restoration”.
That needs to stop. I don’t care if anyone tries to use a “restoration” ploy to get a higher price, but they really need to keep baloney like that out of cleaning standards.
We can’t let the US be the only place in the world cleaning windows the hard way, just because a few lazy US fabricators won’t temper quality glass.
We don’t scrape everything - only if there’s ice cream or something. So, I was at the airport in Stockholm for a few hours the other day, and after I got settled in, I started looking around for scratches. (Didn’t see any.)
I got to watch a couple of airport window cleaners for a while, and got to speak with one of them.
Introduced myself, and asked if he had a scraper. He did – a Triumph MK3.
I mentioned the quality problem we have here with the roller side of tempered glass, and asked if they had any reservations about scraping any glass at the airport.
(And they don’t – there’s tempered glass everywhere, and nothing they can’t scrape.)
When I asked if they would scrape “anything”, at first he thought I meant, do they scrape “everything” - so he said “We don’t scrape everything - only if there’s ice cream or something.”
I just really like the way the way he said that. The guy gets it.
Keeping a scraper handy is the smartest and most efficient way to get most gunk off glass.
It’s faster than extra scrubbing – lots faster than presoaking and scrubbing, chemicals or pads.
Same simple strategy whatever you discover on a window – paint, stickers, artillery fungus, dried ice cream – who cares?
Scrape it off right away and move on.
Here in the US, scraping is perfectly normal, too – but we have people trying to change that – suggesting scraper use is an aggressive method that should be considered “restoration”.
That needs to stop. I don’t care if anyone tries to use a “restoration” ploy to get a higher price, but they really need to keep baloney like that out of cleaning standards.
We can’t let the US be the only place in the world cleaning windows the hard way, just because a few lazy US fabricators won’t temper quality glass.
Cool blog. I got déjà vu partway through.
[MENTION=3418]michaelmole[/MENTION]
Gary, how did the summit go?
It went well.
Thanks again to those of you here who helped get me to GPD - I do believe it’s working.
I got some very interesting info to share about scratch growth after cleaning; annealed glass scratches grow, too, but much more slowly how many than tempered glass scratches.
I’ve got some reading to do, and there’s a guy sending me more information, so it will be a few days before I post on that.
It’s looking like newer air hearth tempering furnaces will help create competition for quality; the significance of air hearth is no furnace rollers = no possibility of roller side fabricating debris defects.
There were 2 air hearth tempering furnace makers at GPD - the more of these they sell in the US, the more pressure for roller-type furnace operators to improve quality.
The more I talk to global glass people about tempered glass roller side quality, the more amazed I am things got SO out of hand in the US.
People I spoke with seemed amazed to realize US window are afraid to use scrapers on tempered glass.
I don’t think there’s a ton of respect for fabricators here in the US who have created this situation.
I think this kind of publicity on our part at GPD is helping generate some healthy peer pressure and competition on their part.
They are planning a GPD North America next year, and I look forward to participating.
I don’t know how fast they can build a reputation like GPD Finland’s but it already looks like a great way to bring the tempered glass quality message home.
Gary,
I’d love to hear your opinion on glass scratch removal. As a lot of this is performed on tempered/toughened glass and usually involves some kind of abrasive being applied to the glass surface, your research would seem to suggest that this is not the best approach?
Declan
Shinebrite Shower & Window Services.
www.shinebrite.co.nz
Thanks for the advice. I’ve actually started putting a scratch waiver and disclaimer notice on all my estimates and invoices. Paperless and paper.
