TDS is a Myth;.....help me prove it!


#1

Take a window that is very hydrophobic and polish out a two by two foot section at the center of the window. Use this technique I have shown here in my video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mf8SzGdaZ5A Remember to use tape on all four sides of the hydrophylic square. Once done just wet the entire window and rinse it with a high TDS water. You will get plenty of drops all over the hydrophobic areas. But the water will totally sheet over the inner hydrophylic square. Here the water should drain down. When it dries you shouldn’t see anything. As for the rest of the window where there were many water drops you should see many water spots. No drops no spots. I am not saying that DI/RO tanks are a conspiracy. I am just saying we need to be thinking a little different about WFP work. There are products out there that have been developed that chemically transform glass into hydrophylic. In my video I did it by physically ‘cleaning’ the glass surface using microabrasives. Because all glass surfaces are naturally hydrophylic. If you want to see something else which is even more mind blowing check this out! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHNQXdP4ffU I have been in contact with the chemist that developed this product. It is based on a nanotechnology. The cost is very little. Problem is I needed to fill out a form because he works for the government. But you know me. I get excited about stuff for awhile. Then lose interest a day later. Which really annoys the snot out of me more than it does you. Trust me on that!

Oh yeah. I am now writing for the WCM on the running topic of Water Technology. The AWC on Glass Committee research called “From the Lab to the Field”. And the EClean on Plastic Maintenance. The windowcleaner.com forum that we use here and these three publications have direct links at the top left of the Glass Smart Blog. Which has taken a turn for the moment to Glass Committee Terminology. And other stuff of course. Lots of links and photos. http://glass-smart.blogspot.com/ If you would like a link on the side of the blog as I have already done for a lot of guys just send me an email with a link to your website. I am soon going to be updating my SEO tech so I can get a lot more hits. Currently I am over 64,000 total and averaging about 5,000 a month. But once this gets out to the general public much more they will want to link with Window Cleaners who are Glass Smart. I still want to build a separate page for everyone.
henrygroverjr@gmail.com

Henry


#2

Hi Henry. Interesting that you bring this up. Honestly, this is probably over my head a bit because you seem to be a scientist and I’m…just me.
However, I ran into something interesting last month on a huge house that I did -247 panes. I noticed that my di tank was starting to go (tds of 8-10). I wasn’t in position to get it recharged, and I was curious how quickly it would go out. Since I have an inline tds meter, it was easy to monitor. Within 30 min it was up in the 40s and climbing. Eventually it was 90s and 100s. I had time to touch if necessary, so I just did the job on a failing tank. I made sure to scrub thoroughly and rinse extra.

I was shocked that the windows were spotless when I did the insides. Literally could not tell a difference.

I even did a second, smaller house to see if I could see a difference. Same result. Don’t get me wrong, I exchanged the tank pronto, and don’t intend to make it a pattern, but found it interesting.

Was it the extra scrubbing that did it? Is failing resin still capable of doing its job?

Curious as to your thoughts.


#3

No resin, meaning tap water, should be able to do the job if the windows are hydro philic enough. Hydroohilia being achieved thru abrasion, surfactant, or both. Or some other means.

Pure water mfgers should be thinking about this.

Ok. Butting out…


#4

Kinda the same thing happened to me the other day , I’m glad it did because laddering it would have been no fun…

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#5

Always fascinated by your insights.


#6

Your absolutely right on this. That is the main reason why watered guys are looking to revert the glass back to hydrophilic. And most polishing processes from scratch removal with glassrenu, to hardware removal with mr. Hardware, hand buffing diamond magic or even bar keepers friend ttansforms the glass back. The wfp guys don’t have to scrub or rinse as much. The holy grail of window cleaning.

The dilemma is doing it to the window. I have a hard time seeing guys taking the time and effort to climb up a ladder take an orbital or oscillating tool to polish a second story windows. Just so next few time they can rip through a job next time with regular water. Then the question is how does the glass stay that way? Would you want to do it to storefront glass? Could you even market it to customers? What are the consumer benefits? I see our benefits but have a hard time seeing even the property management company buying into that idea for easier maintenance. If they do jump on the idea I can see storefront guys losing out to day porters running around with a garden hose splashing the windows.

If there is an quick easy and affordable way to apply it while routinely cleaning the glass then its a game changer.

Could/do you get a similar result if you "polish " the glass with 3M white scrub pad?

I love the theory, but I think we would have better luckwith the super hydrophobic coating. That application look super quick and easy. Doesn’t eliminate pure water so maybe that creates a bigger problem. I would like to see it tested in a shower. Half hydrophobic and half hydrophilic.

Years ago I tried “Sheer Glass” and nano ultra to change glass to hydrophilic it worked for 6 month’s ish, just took to long the polish for the end result. That’s why I got into Enduorshield. And I am not in love with it either for cleanning purposes but it dors what its suppose to do. And it’s easyfor residential clients to get behind.


#7

Texas Rich,

I am just me too. Your ideas are just as valuable as anyone elses. Thankyou for relating that experience. This is really how we learn. I had a similar experience. Garden hose, high TDS, glass half hydrophobic and half hydrophylic. Rinsed the entire window. Spotted where it was hydrophobic. Not a single spot in the hydrophylic area of the window. So yeah. As Matt says. Holy Grail !!! The problem is really with the glass not the TDS. Even with a very low TDS if you have drops you will have spots. Unless there are absolutely NO minerals in that water. But this is a very difficult and expensive task.

Bubble Guy. They are thinking about it for sure. A lot. We just don’t get to hear their thoughts. That wouldn’t be productive for them.

WR, Thank you for your kind words. But I have to remind everyone that you guys are carrying the torch with me. We are together on this. As you have demonstrated by these comments. I have met so many people on this Forum that are so far above my curiosities. Each is a specialist. I am always talking to them over the computer and phone.

Matt,

And you my friend are right on target here. It comes down to time and effort. That middle video with the car glass demonstrates that there are products out there that can be fed into the main line of the WFP and will instantly turn the glass hydrophylic. No extra time and no extra effort. Also very little extra expense. Just pass that on. That is the Holy Grail. Someone is going to develop it. Soon.

Henry


#8

My experience has been that in a non controlled environment, more specitically a high heat exposure to the glass like the sun, the water, although spreading on the glass, does not have time to run down before it dries and the minerals dry on the glass. They just don’t dry in spots but rather in a wavy pattern concentrated towards the bottom of the glass. I would retry the experiment in direct sun, on a taller window where the full length of the glass is polished from top to bottom where one half is polished and the other half is not. Then wet the glass at the top and saturate the whole pane. Once it dries look carefully for mineral deposits, in the form of waves, on the polished side and be sure to look closely at the bottom.

Another indicator of what I am talking about would be resoration jobs where the glass has been polished and no coating has been applied to protect the glass. Usually water spots will reform on the glass over a short period of time (within a year) and long term it tends to be worse than before the restoration.

That said I am absolutely interested in the concept and my biggest interest isn’t being able to use a wfp without filtration. I can’t reveal my hand on this other than to express my high level of interest.

Also @Henry_Grover_Advance what product we’re you using in the polishing video? Would love to know! A PM with info would be awesome!


#9

Now that is some great thinking. Definitely a better experiment. And very interesting observations about the reformation of mineral deposits and the recreation of a hydrophobic surface because of such. You definitely have a good hold of the ideas here presented by all of us.

Would love to talk more in private. I don’t do PM however. It scares me too much. I never know if I have done it right. Please send me an email and we can go back and forth that way.

Henry
henrygroverjr@gmail.com


#10

My window cleaning soap is mixed with a ratio of detergent and surfactant, I can scrub windows with a car wash brush, rinse with garden hose and they dry completely clear 95% of the time


#11

Ever thought of marketing your soap?

Henry


#12

I have looked into it. I have a line of cleaning chemicals my pharmacist Father blended for me before he died. Too much red tape, too much expense and too many thieves


#13

I understand. Product development and sales is not an easy business. Those guys like JRC earn their wage. Personally I love research and development. I tried product sales but it didn’t work out.

Still writing my blog however.

Henry