Solo guy not seeing need for website anymore


Awesome! Im glad you found it.


Do you do websites or SEO?


Hi whatapane, yes we do both.


I curious, I didnt get any response to my question in my comment, maybe you can give me some insite.

Years ago I had a great website and was on tue front page of Google in the first three spots in the organic section. I got kost of business off of it and I stayed there for some tike with little effort. Then Google made a lot of changes and my businees also went through a lot of adjustments and I fell in the ranking and eventually had to start over. I have not looked to expand and have had plenty of work from other avenues so I have not sought to use my site for anything ither than information for customers.

I am now looking to expand and grow again. My question is do consuners still heavily rely on the organic section still? If so how difficult is it now a days to gain a front page spot and maitain it? It seems a lot of people rely on the Google local maps section as Google has seemed to give it a large spot on the front page.

Is Organic ranking and SEO still worth the investment it once was or is it better to focus your marketting miney elsewhere and use tour site more as an infirmation and online digital brochure where you drive peole to the site from other marketting sources?


First we need to define “Organic results”

There are 2 parts to a typical organic result - maps results and regular organic results (below the map).

Maps organics are incredibly important, as our eyes are trained to largely ignore the banners / ads etc that Google puts over maps and head right for Maps. Adwords (Ads) are also an important part of a robust SEM campaign, but we’ll leave that for another conversation.

The regular organic results are not nearly as important from a leads perspective, as even the strongest of local websites are usually buried by Yelp, Angies, Thumbtack, Homeadvisor etc. A big mistake I would see when running 462 was when people would focus all their energy into getting number 1 in regular organics and doing no off page optimization for their Maps listings. The typical consumer is simply not making it that far down the page anymore.

However, there is a strong direct correlation to performance in regular organic results and performance of Maps results. If you can work your regular organics into the top 5, your Maps listings will typically follow. SEO is still worth it, probably more than ever before.


Sorry, @whatapane I somehow overlooked your questions.

1.) Do consumers still rely heavily on organic ranking or do the local maps matter more?

  • Yes, they do. Consumers are smarter searchers than before. They know what type of results matter. For example; when they search for pizza they will click on the maps listings more often. But when they search for services they are likely to do more research and will check both as they know that the maps results are not as reliable for these types of searches.
  • Organic ranking and local ranking are now related. The more searchers click on one of your listings, the better the other performs (results vary). Even PPC can affect your local ranking indirectly because of increased clicks on your regular listing. (Careful with that though, you may change the local curve)
  • The local maps results used to show 7 results, now it shows 3 (as of Aug 2015) but without phone numbers and addresses. That means better odds for organic clicks for many industries. Perhaps when you ranked well Whatapane, you were competing against 7 maps listings, and seems you still got calls.
  • An example of the 2 competing results — I have 2 customers both in the same city right now (one is not an SEO client). They both have decent websites. One of them is in the top spot organically while the other is on the bottom of the first page of google. The one on the bottom of the first page has a listing in the local 3-pack (map listings) and the one that is #1 organically does not have a listing showing in the local-3 pack. Which one do you think gets more calls? - Its the one that is #1 organically. Probably 7 to 1. Also, it doesn’t hurt that he has a better site - but not that much better. Conclusion: Having a nice site show up top 3 is better than having a decent site that ranks in the local pack.
  • It is true that there are more avenues online than ever to get business these days but more people rely on search than they did a few years ago. This means wc customers as well. So SEO still matters.
  • SEO is now close to being an $80 Billion dollar industry. Probably double when you last had good ranking Whatapane. People are paying more for a reason. But this sometimes means stiffer competition…

2.) How hard is it to get to the top of Google??

  • Harder than it used to be. 7 years ago I had a site ranking #1 in Google in Los Angeles. It took me 6 months of very little effort to do so (relatively speaking). After I got it up there I put my feet up and did not work on it further. It was still in the top 3 for almost 2 years. The business no longer existed by 5 years but the site still did. It was findable until 2017 then it disappeared. Now I have another client in the same industry who wants to be number one for LA. After 6 months I got him to the bottom of the first page with double the effort. I believe it will take another 6 months to get to the top 3. But it will. This is just one example.
  • Much depends on the site and location but it’s still possible. I have customers in the hardest most competitive markets and I can still rank them in the top 3.
  • Most wc companies do not invest in ranking, rather they invest in a getting a website built locally by someone who does not continue to nurture the site.
  • Most wc companies sites are not built well so ranking higher than the competition usually is not too hard if you know what you are doing. It does take longer than before though.
  • Most of my clients rank higher than the big 4 (Angieslist, HomeAdvisor, Yelp, thumbtack) for many or most of their target keywords. More people are wise to those sites now and many tend to avoid them in the results either way.

3.) Is SEO worth the investment?

  • I’ve never had an SEO client not rank well. And I’ve never had one get a negative return on their investment.
  • SEO isn’t everything. But it is often the longest lasting return. But remember, not all marketing avenues or markets are created equal. Some things will work better than SEO for some companies. As ChrisTripleC mentioned; You need to have a well-rounded marketing campaign.
  • The value of organic ranking is still huge. Ask yourself when was the last time you clicked on a website in the top 3. Chances are good that they worked hard or paid well for that position and it paid off. You clicked on it.
  • I recommend building a brand not just a website. Google and Consumers love brands and most of your competitors don’t understand branding.

Hope that helps. Let me know if you have any more questions.


Thanks for the reply and the information. After my aite lost rank I was not focused on growth but could barely manage what I had enough to keep my head above water. After all the changes I knew it would take more than I could afford in the moment in both time and money to focus my efforts on my site. I went through quite a tough time.

I am ready to grow again now and so I am looking to rely focus on my marketing. I agree with building a brand and have givwn lota of thought to it for some time and have a decent idea of what I want to do. The challenge now is just getting there. I have some ideas on the direction I want to go.

How much do you charge for your services? Do you build sites as well as do seo?


495+ a month, and a 495 set up fee, according to his website.

@ChrisTripleC does this too, I believe. I don’t know his pricing, but I’m sure it depends on where you are and what you want.

Personally, IF I were going to hire someone for a service, I want to hire someone familiar with the industry I’m in, and someone who can prove/show results.



I actually sold my agency to @Justin_w_A_Pane, who is also in our industry :slight_smile:

You can actually contact them at for info.


Hello again whatapane. Yes we do build websites and do SEO. We have several plans.

I am glad things have gotten better for you and that you are in a place where you feel you can responsibly handle and pursue growth for your business through other means of marketing. Always good to count the costs (not just in terms of money ) before commiting to growth. I learned that myself in my WC biz.

@anon82274079 makes a good point. Hiring a company who is familiar with the industry does have advantages.

I am very familiar with the window cleaning industry. I owned a busy wc biz (residential, commercial, highrise) for 10 years before selling it. However I have done digital publishing for longer. I have been an active member of WCR for years. Some here may have seen our booth at the Huge Convention in Atlanta this last year.

Currently, we have a number of clients in the WC industry who are doing well. As far as our pricing goes — please refer to at our pricing page. The pricing HoosierSqueegee mentioned is for our highest plan - a full SEO package.

Feel free to email me - with any questions anytime.


Hello Whatapane,

As Chris mentioned I’m very familiar with this industry. My service company has grown to 11 employees because of a strong online presence. That company is ran 100% by my office manager, while I spend my time dominating google. I’ve been a member of WCRA since the beginning and have strong ties in our window cleaning industry.

We currently do SEO with over 45 window cleaning and pressure washing companies and also dominate, I mean DOMINATE our local market. Let’s set up a call and I’ll show you examples of some rankings we have not just the first spot, but the first 5 spots.

I look forward to talking to you (509) 808-0787


Chad sorry for the delayed response. I think if you can do that man that’s great. Based on how I know you like to run your business I think this fits you perfectly :grinning:


Thanks man! You know I value your opinion. And you know I like to keep things simple.


Update: I admit I was wrong and did not think everything through. I just had a huge wake up call.

I just had a phone call. The lady on the phone said she had a friend at her house. She said she heard good things about me. She told her friend before calling me, let’s look up his website. She said she noticed it is not on the internet anymore. She asked me “Do you still clean windows?” That was my wake up call.
Needless to say I will have my website live again ASAP. I never thought about by not being on the internet anymore people would think I am not in business anymore.

I learned my lesson.


I should have listened to everyone. You never know when someone might look you up on the internet.


BOOM! Glad it was now and not in the late spring.


I know. Me too!


That’s what I mean. Today, everyone just expects a legit, functioning business to have a website. Kinda like people used to expect you to have a yellow page/phone book listing IF you were a legit, functioning business.

Glad you caught it now, not when it’s too late. A few hundred a year for your website may save you many thousands in sales from being lost.


You are so right. It is not like having a website costs $20,000 a year for web hosting and domain renewal. It is a minimal investment to show I still clean windows.That was a HUGE eye opener for me. Glad I caught it early too!


I love to read threads like this! Im glade youre back up and running on website. 🖒