Fabrication debris doesn't exist

There is this much about the subject… It doesn’t matter if the problem is FD, soft glass, some other contaminant, or what have you. The problem IS that manufactures are not making glass to a standard that they can be cleaned without becoming even more damaged.

WHAT exactly, do manufactures expect people to do? No matter what, you can’t expect windows to never get dirty, or have someone drip a little paint, tree sap, or whatever comes along. Glass isn’t sold to people as a “temporary” decoration. It’s sold as a long life part of the structure of a building.

I have personally, like others, come across the little “tink” of crap under a blade. It’s melted to the glass. For years, many have studied it, pronounced there were debris on the glass from the manufacturing process, and stood by that. NOW all the sudden, that’s just not the case? Really?

So were those experts that said this all along wrong, and incompetent in their work, or are people now trying to be in the good graces of manufactures? Excuse me if I sound suspicious, but technology to see this just didn’t get developed.

6 Likes

Hey guys you know the forum rules about profanity, let’s choose other clean words to make a point.

5 Likes

When new techniques and advances in medicine from new tech and research comes to light that tells big shot surgeons that they were doing things all wrong? I’m sure the bubble was popped on quite a few of them on many occasion.

Humbling I guess.

Once this new information comes and tells the world exactly what it is, best believe I will be saying something along the lines like “what we know at this point is: blah blah, based on the information provided to us, here’s a fact sheet and how they arrived at those conclusions.”

2 Likes

@anon82274079 james makes a good point here.

Anyone got a link to how they got to these findings?

Did IWCA release this just after the convention?

from that email sounds like its tin or something in the tin or the makeup of the glass itself

is the tin leaving something on the glass? or something in the ingredients of the tin or quality of tin?

there is definitely a difference between Andersen tempered glass that rarely scratches and old castle that almost always scratches

I hope someone will pursue the difference between these two glass samples to arrive at an answer in the difference of these two products

2 Likes

I now treat all glass as if it scratches. I forewarn customers of windows that has a lot of debris like paint, stucco, and other stubborn bits attached to the glass that there is the possibility of very faint scratches seen under certain lighting conditions. Minimal amounts I just handle the best that I can, lots of it - I ask how they would like me to proceed.

5 Likes

I appreciate that. But then, when is a scraper proper to use? I get the debris thing. But even processing a window can scratch it with debris. I’m just saying I personally can’t walk in fear in the field. Knowledge and expertise rule. Not trying to ruffle feathers. Trying to be competent professional.

It’s pretty straight forward, now the stance is tempered glass MUST not be scraped.

1 Like

Wow. Thanks for the straight answer. I do find it hard to believe that no one is scraping tempered glass.

He and holier than thou Mauer, bunch a frauds!! Crickets. Dueces.

From now I encourage this: confidently say…

“I’m gonna scrape all that crap off that the subs left behind, that’s my method if you hire me period. AND if it scratches not my deal, no dough no go!”

1 Like

That’s why many window cleaners are not very happy, because now that IWCA and GANA both said the same thing, the waivers that were in place prior will be useless , people had been scratching tempered glass for years blaming the manufacture for making glass that had what was then called FD.

Hmmm. Thinking. Anybody else want to admit on a public forum that you scrape tempered glass? Going to be some slow work removing all things chemically. What am I 'spose to do, take the tape off with my fingees? I don’t believe for one second that FD does not exist. I’ve seen it, heard it, felt it, got splinters from it.

We never scrape tempered glass, havn’t for years.

Charge accordingly.

4 Likes

This is going to be long, so bear with me. I, as others have stated, have run into things on ccu that I couldn’t seem to clean off tempered glass without a razor. Now, I did try, but the windows were so incredibly messed up it likely would have taken me 3- 4 times longer to remove it. That being said, I had minimal scratches, and more importantly the builder knew it may scratch and he was ok with the risk. In my area, builders seem to accept there may be scratches, but the odd thing is there were scratches on almost every window in this house before I got there and he seemed to be fine with that. I took pictures of thr preex at his request and nothing ever came from it on my end, though if i had been the homeowner I would have had issues with the builder. They build nice homes, regularly 4- 6k sq ft custom. The reason I wrote that story is I almost never work for builders as they don’t want to pay my rates, even with a razor. I tried to not use a razor on the above mentioned house, but it was taking far too long. I’m not sure if I could have gotten it all off without one. Which brings me to my next story, same builder and the reason I was brought in on the above house. They had a cleaning lady crew clean this house, and about 50 other new builds. She charges 2.5- 3+ less than me based on how long their messed up windows take. The cleaning lady scratched almost every window in the house, on both sides! Really nice, top of the line custom windows. Around 1,300 a pop give or take. All told, they told me 30k in glass damage and 50k total when you consider install, painting, etc. They were almost all tempered too. I tried glass renu, but in the end it was better to replace. I did clean a few that the glass lady was not ok with cleaning (too high), and I believe in the 3 windows I got 1- 2 scratches and they had a good amount of mortor on them. The cleaning in lady had 15+ scratches per side for comparison, and some of them deep enough to catch your finger nail. In the end i told the builder about fab debries, and I found out later that a window company rep came out and determined it was a manufacturing defect so now the window company is replacing all the windows. You could tell a difference on the surface of the glass in both houses which one was tempered and which was not, and some of the tempered ones did seem to have stuff embedded in the glass that the other windows didnt. Personally, i think builders should be aware that if they let their other contracters leave crap on the windows, there is likely going to be a scratch when it is cleaned, as well as that something, whether its fd or soft glass, is up with tempered and it is more likely to scratch. A waiver could be written that way that would cover the wc.

1 Like

If your ok with leaving a job with " minimal scratches" thats fine.

I personally feel it is my responsibility to find a sloution and choose to bid with enough time to complete the job without any issues when complete.

Educate the customer state why you use the technique and why.

3 Likes

No doubt about it, glass scratches to one degree or another. Gouging is COMPLETELY different than faint scratches under only certain light.

I appreciate your thoughts and efforts for high quality Jeff. What methods do you use? If there is a way to 100% of the time never get a scratch when removing all types of debries then im all for learning it. Before I even started my business I spent hours researching methods and i couldnt find anything that wasnt 100%, but never say never.

Im pretty close to that…truth be told.

1 Like

It is extraordinarily slow work,I had these 9 panes of glass a few months ago I spent over half a day on removing all the paint and silicone with melamine pads, white scrubby pads and steel wool with an orange based solvent that does not damage the seals.

Its not fun work it hurts your fingers and its soo frustrating, so you charge accordingly and you educate them how if only they would have covered the windows before the trades came in a made a mess.
I personally steer away from CCU these days, and all my quotes clearly state (in small writing :wink: ) that no construction debris will be removed

2 Likes