Sorry to hear that you did not get the job. I still think that $4 a window was a fair price, and that pricing per window when bidding makes sense. Glad to hear that you stuck to your price and that you are not letting this rejection get you down. The good news is that you shouldn’t have any more anxiety over this one. Keep thinking positive. 
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I dont recall, did you ever actually count the windows yourself?
Sometimes when you know the price or think you know what a job has paid prior can really miss guide you.
This is been a valuable thread, thanks for starting it.
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yea for sure. I wont be buying one for a long time. Unless I get a big commercial job soon.
I never did count the windows myself. I only was able to get into the school once. Inside the school was where majority of the windows were. I needed it to pay high to purchase a WFP. But I learned and maybe something will come my way another time.
Sorry to hear that man.
I know it ain’t easy trying to figure out which way to go as far as advice go’s. Best way to know how long it will take to do any job is by experience.
You can’t really know how long something will take unless you’ve done it. The rest is easy.
Don’t let it get you down, you’ll loose a whole lot more before you’re done. It’s okay to screw up an estimate…you can always talk to him in a month or two, tell him you screwed up the numbers and want to know if you can get in on the next bid.
How long are the contracts good for? 3 years or just the one time per year?
If you can get in on the next one, by then you’ll have a better understanding of how long it will take you to do and price it from there. Don’t go counting windows or you’ll end up in the same spot.
@anon82274079
James;
You remember this?
Do you still think I was doing him wrong? You still think I was off on any part of the advice I gave him?
Do you really believe I don’t know what I’m talking about?
Nope, I don’t think he was wrong to bid what he did. 2K is TOO cheap here for that amount of work.
I don’t know what the last guy actually bid, but we’ve all heard it before. The last guy did it for a case of beer, your bid is too high. Who really knows what the last bid was. All in all, it doesn’t matter, because he needs money to stay in business.
Just because you bid cheap, doesn’t mean we all have to or want to bid cheap.
If some guy comes along and bids half of your prices, are you going to cut your prices 50+%? Or are you going to switch gears and do something profitable with your time? We have the el cheapo bob here abouts too, but I am not lowering my prices. If they take the market, good for them. I’ll find something else to do that pays what I want. I’m not looking to start a business to live in poverty, I’m smarter than that.
If I can’t work for myself for 100+ an hour, then why bother? A job that pays 20 an hour is worth 50 with benefits. Why bother being an owner if you get paid like a employee AND take all the risks?
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You didn’t answer my question.
You think I don’t agree with what you’re saying or something, but I do.
I really think YOU are the one misleading people but not purposely, I think you may not have enough experience.
You are basing you rant on what?
If you read what I have been saying; you may rethink things.
Who cares what was bid before James, it don’t matter. I am usually the most expensive in my market, so don’t try and say that I bid cheap because you lack the experience to be efficient enough to compete. That isn’t my problem.
Look, think what you want. I would have made money on that job and would have beat you all day every day on that bid. I would have made 100% of my overhead. You call it beer money, I call it putting you outta business.
Say I’m wrong all day long, I don’t care. What I do care about is being accused of trying to mislead my peers. Not cool.
Look friend, I’ve been around here for some time now. I like you, but you are like many people. You think if YOU charge X, that’s the way it is across the board. It isn’t. It was you not that long ago that had your trailer and tools stolen, and wondered HOW you were going to make it. Lots of people here offered to help, because you made it sound like YOU were broke and didn’t have the insurance to write you a check to get your tools.
You are also the one that said not long ago, that you can’t get the money you were just a few years ago.
That isn’t a slam, it’s a reminder of your market and how you present to us how your business is. You talk about “putting me” out of business, and I find that really funny. I’m not complaining about the money I make on my bids, and I am not worried about how I will replace my tools, should something happen. I’m doing just fine.
You aren’t getting every bid, and neither is anyone else. But you are sitting over there with a smirk on your face, like you “got me” somehow. I still don’t agree with you and I still think the pricing advice and the time advice was off the mark, by a long shot. Now, maybe if you had a half dozen experienced guys and two or three WFP’s, you might get it in a couple days. That is, unless you are doing a splash and dash, but I’m sure you aren’t one of those types. You are essentially saying you would have priced that job at less that 2 bucks a pane. Anyone else here saying they’d do the job for that? I sure won’t.
Even the local window hacks are getting 2 bucks for storefront. That ain’t enough to motivate me. Some guys could only hope to get that much. Others think it’s too cheap. You can’t apply your pricing in LA to everywhere else.
To clarify, when I say “you out of business” that didn’t mean YOU.
but whatever.
have a nice weekend. i still disagree with what you say. i wasn’t talking about you personally dude. i ain’t a keyboard warrior homie.
lets just let this go. i’ll start.
Have a good weekend man.
This post started when the OP said he was told( albeit not by the person who mattered) that the customer was willing to pay 5k, everyone must have been like whoa well if you can get it and sit back and wait for the news, not like it broke our bank…
News was it was MUCH higher than they have payed in the past. YOUR JOKING!
At the end of the day if you want work, you can’t just use an arbitrary number because you need to set your self up with a WFP system, its not a big job nor a hard job its a straight forward job, you could even ladder it and still be done in 3-4 days.
While sticking by your price is totally the thing to do before you do that you NEED to work out what a realistic price is not about how much you want to make per hour with very limited experience, you don’t see a carpenters apprentice on $60/hr do you, no they are learning and are on like $10/hr and remain so until they have completed their 4 years of training.
It was the trend for newbies to bid too low, now they seems to be bidding themselves out of the running.
You as well. Enjoy time with the family. Life is too short.
Reread the OP again. He said he was told they paid 5k last year and there were 1175 panes.
The help wasn’t for an hourly rate, it was a pane rate. The VERY thing that almost everyone here advocates. Price per window/pane for simplicity and keeping things easy. I don’t care how fast or slow you are, you have to figure some way to charge a price. Unless maybe you just throw a dart at the board and that’s todays price…
And keep in mind, again, what YOU charge isn’t relative unless the person you are talking to is in the SAME market. You won’t see a employee doing carpentry work getting 60 bucks an hour here, nor will you get a decent helper for 10 bucks an hour. Wages are shooting up in my area, and people aren’t working for minimum wage anymore. Even fast food is paying 10 plus an hour.
And so what if he bid higher than the last guy? He charges what he feels is fair. Is he supposed to work for free? Are WFP’s going to fall from the sky because he gave away his work? Is he supposed to charge a buck a window until he has 4 years experience? No matter his price, he is still expected to provide clean windows, regardless of how much experience he has.
In case you haven’t noticed, it’s not 1960 anymore, it’s 2018. Everything costs a lot more than it used to. I can’t blame someone for expecting to get paid fairly.
Without experience how does he know what is fair other than what others say they get which is $60-100/hr so he assuming it will take 50 hours charges $5k ok
ITs not a residential job or a storefront I would not place it in the same resi you have screens and tracks and furniture.
Charge how you like.
I’m telling you though you will not have much success landing jobs this size and larger charging 5k for 25 hours work. your free to do that, don’t be surprised when none of your bids are successful.
The people who you are submitting a bid for would have received many bids especially if that person has been in charge for years so they have a rough idea what is supposed to cost.
Most companies that do much commercial work their competing prices will only be a few hundred dollars difference so when they see a quote for what I would estimate by the OPs comment that it was a surprising amount the building manger conferred meaning he was WAY off the mark for that market.
The market is already established if the building manager is competent then they get these services done annually if not more frequently with this they have a budget of an approximation of what they payed the year before/s + 15% the school doesn’t look new so they would have records for the previous years.
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This bid may be a great reference to the overwhelming desire to not use ladders.
I like what James said and use a ladder, this was easier 2 story work. You can’t expect the first job you do provide you with the expensive tools that are to a point luxury tools. A business does put you out at times and you will need to invest in tools or clean using traditionally until you have the money for better or efficient tools.
This bid was a great example of not taking the time to count windows and bid yourself. Inexperience showed where this was neglected. New guys typically will over think and make many trips to the big first job opportunity to ensure their plan will be effective and estimated time correct.
This could be corrected by making contact and ask if there were questions on bid and even how far off you were from prior work. Follow up.
Simply explain too there must be a reason prior bid was not used again. Explain you gave a price based on competing all work with safety and quality in mind.
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We have threads here stating window prices. It’s a starting point for new people and a place to check pricing for established business owners. He also asked, and people told him what they thought. I think it was stated more than once, this job was going to take him more time then he planned.
Now you are stating 25 hours to complete. Another experienced vet claimed 16 hours. You seem worried about how a new guy prices, but it seems no one can even agree how many ACTUAL hours the job will take, even if you have done this for YEARS.
Again with the presumption of many bids. How many window cleaners are in his market? I don’t know, but I’d bet it’s less than you think. As far as pricing, you ever run into someone that had the last guy clean for 100 bucks? Since they paid that, is that the new price for window cleaning? Are you going to sweat it over that?
Think so? I bet that there are a wider range in price then you are saying. Call out 5 different construction companies to bid on building you a garage. I bet there is more than 200 bucks difference between bids.
There are guys out there charging way more than me in other markets. There are guys charging less than me in my market. I’m probably the most expensive in my own market. I do fine. I’m not trying to be “everyone’s” window guy. I’m the window company for my target audience.
I see it happening alot with new people in this industry and others, make the mistake of “assumption.”
In this case the OP took the word of someone who wasn’t the decision maker.
Price he quoted was almost twice his market value for that job.
He didn’t understand the job scope (we all have done it in the beginning )
I also see a lot of new people get number “envy” seeing people post huge amounts for a job and they assume they can too. (I used to do that) worst mistake!
You really have to understand your numbers and the scope of the job your bidding on.
I hope this thread gets many viewers.
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I said max, there are unforseen circumstances which arise which you should factor into, I’m not worried about any ones price.
Its not a presumption I’m not saying in the small area he services, but these types of properties get these services done often enough and that place looks 20+ years old so it is a logical determination that they have received many bids over the years even if its from companies outside the local area.
I bet there are as well, however the ones doing the majority of the work, those guys prices will be quite comparable, where the guys who come in much higher or much lower the person receiving the quote will assume they have no idea what they are doing or they are just too expensive to be comparable even if the quality is higher. Generally when a property only gets the outside of the glass done as has their own janitorial staff do the insides they can be disappointed with the job and assigning the blame to the outside guys.
and most of them aren’t at $5 per pane per side which is closer to the bid which was given.
But good luck to $4.25 per pane per side.
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If your price is higher you need to sell it. Let them know why, what do you bring.
Many cases budget is sole factor but not always. You put the work in to get a bid submitted, who cares your higher, put more effort to sell it and see where it goes.
The OP my be frustrated we are talking so much about this but this really is helpful to many.
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