Mark - I respect you but your analogy of the shirt is not accurate. Michael’s point about Armani putting a label in it that said it can’t be cleaned in any way is accurate to the way the glass warranties are written. Just as a shirt that can’t be cleaned w/out “damaging” it shouldn’t be sold so too, glass that can only be touched by a soft cloth, soapy water, and a squeegee won’t come clean in the real world. Notice GANA doesn’t allow for the use of white pads or magic erasers. Now that our hands are thoroughly tied and you have no “alternatives” that can be used how do you proceed.
I’m fairly certain that durring the life of the window, something or many things have happened to it which would void the mfg. warrenty before we ever arrive on the job, but who gets the blame? But, that is another thread for another time.
Just a thought:
Most, if not all, warrenties are voided by the installation of window film. Most window film companies will "pick up’ the warranty in order to sell the product. What if the same were true with “alternative” product mfgs.?
(This should be good)
So if a bird leaves a present on the window and it’s there for a couple months before you got there do you pass (it will need a razor of chem that will void warranty)? What about egged windows (again chem or razor)?
Yeah Man, I can see that being awkward.
“Sorry, Mr. Johnson, we’re gonna have to pass on doing your windows. I’ll gladly refer you to Whack-and-Hack Window Washing down the street though.”
“What? Well… Why?”
“Oh… Well, it’s pretty complicated… But… basically, we can’t clean your windows because you let them get dirty. Sorry! Give Joe at Whack-and-Hack a call though.”
This is just my point. We are left dealing with the Manufacturers customer was sold a defective product. There is certain types of soiling that can’t be taken off unless you use a razor, steel wool, or alternative chemical that voids the warranty. But we look like the difficult ones to the customer, or we have to waste our time going through a lengthy education course about the process of tempered glass manufacturing and the manufacturers lack of desire to fix the problem, along with the builders lack of knowledge about the problem.
This would all be solved if the manufacturer would just keep their equipment clean, and clean the glass before tempering. the problem will become more wide spread because manufacturers are now doing their best to educate the consumer to their position on the problem which is don’t touch the glass with a razor. The consumer is buying it, “razors are evil” and every window cleaner wants to harm my poor baby windows with their vicious blades! The more the manufacturer indoctrinates the consumer the more the customer is going to nitpick the process we use to clean the windows, when they should be nitpicking the manufacturer on the quality of the window they are selling.
That’s why we need to educate the consumer about the truth. Before they make their purchase.
I guarantee this will become more of a problem for us the more consumers are educated Or indoctrinated by the manufacturer.
Quite an extreme reaction to what I’m saying. And didn’t you walk off a job because off FD.
[b][I] Walked off a job…
We walked off of a CCU job a month ago. Marvin casements. 70 of them. Insides cleaned up beautifully. Outsides… FD all over. Tried razoring small sections of 2 different windows, both scratched. Next, tried steel wool. Again, scratches.[/I][/b]
I suggest walking away from any job that is more trouble than it is worth and you react like I’m just wimping out and giving work to my competitors.
I’ll still use a razor with a signed waiver but if any manufacturer says it will void the warranty then I won’t use it. But razors are no longer a standard part of my window cleaning tools. I’ll only bring it out in those rare ocassions and provide education with the home owner.
-
it wasn’t a “reaction,” Mark. I was simply taking the point that Tony was making and illustrating it a bit. And if it was a reaction, it definitely wasn’t a reaction to you. It was more of a response to the bind that the manufacturers leave the homeowner in, with their crappy product.
-
Yes, I did walk off of a job because of excessive FD, along with a few other factors.
-
for the record, I agree with you (I think) in that a razor is not (and never has been) part of a standard window cleaning for my company.
-
You’re pretty defensive, huh?
I apologize if I misinterpretted your post. I took it as your opinion of how I would react to windows that can’t be scraped due to warranty issues. Obvious I was wrong. …friends? 
Michael
I removed my “like” to Marks post. I misinterpreted it also.
Please explain to me what you mean by game on?
Hypothetical situation:
There is mortar, oil based paint, egg and a seagul has left a present on a window exterior with a Low-E Coating. It also has fabricating debris.
The question is, how would you use an alternative method to remedy the situation?
Game on = do the job you were hired to do
John - a low-e coating over FD has it’s own issues. That being said any pane w/ a low-e coating can’t get any of these issues on them or it’s time to replace that sash.
More specifically,
- Doing what the glass manufacturers don’t want us to do(use a razor on their garbage glass?)
- Does game on = razoring any of the glass due to a signed waiver?
- What do mean by pulling FD>?
- How do you find their defects?
Thanks for your time
Nope, not sure how you would respond to that situation, but I’m sure it would be articulate and professional. I was simply highlighting the pinch that the homeowner is put in… Namely that if the windows are too dirty, they cannot safely be cleaned.
(In fairness, I do like to push people a little bit to make them think/explain their opinion more thoroughly on occasion.)
Friends.
You’re a good man.
Kind of like Larry’s long lost nephew? 
No, but with us being so similar, (young, tall and handsome) I can see how you’d think that… 
Yep, but one of the builders now takes the screens immediately at delivery and locks them up in his office until I do the clean. I love it, no Sheetrock dust, nothing on them, but it also shows the builders attention to detail.
We also have a “CCU with plastic” price and a “CCU without plastic” price, it either motivates to protect or it makes sure our extra hours of work are paid for, so I’m happy. Which could easily be adopted by alternative method users, money talks, it would have to outweigh the painter/cement guys cost to put plastic up, but if the builder would pass the upcharge to them, they would probably be glad to put up plastic. So 3x would work (mostly as a deterrent beforehand, or back charged afterward for damages) if it’s passed on to the culprit. The builder has every right to require plastic in their bid process, and the builder will be glad you are concerned about their customers glass and if the painter/whoever refuses to protect the customers glass then they will most likely not win the bid for the job, so we all win!
Educate Everyone;)
Tony, that’s why I asked, how would you use an alternative method to remedy the situation?
I would like to know if the low-e coating can be removed, if glass restoration removes FB and if a new low-e coating can be applied? If this is possible, would it be worth it or is sash replacement the better alternative?
