The core of the problem right there. NO ONE seems to want to work (produce).
A long time ago, many companies in other industries paid piece rates. I think employers really are faced with the issue today, how to get people to produce AND control labor expenses. I’ve seen employers today try to “motivate” applicants and employees with many things, like vacation from the start, higher wages, and all kinds of perks. None of it really seems to motivate most people. They just start to “expect” these perks other employers are offering. And it doesn’t seem to motivate people to produce for the employer.
The only viable thing that seems will/does work is to pay a worker based on what they actually do (produce). Some will make more than others, but that’s the way it SHOULD be. If worker A cleans three houses a day, why should he make the same as worker B that did only two in the same time? It’s not fair to worker A nor fair to the employer.
We price by the project we bid. Unless an employer is pricing work by the hour, I don’t see why it’s not fair for the worker to be compensated by the project as well.
It also makes the employee have some skin in the game, when they are training. You only earn what you produce, so you need to learn and get to speed quickly.
This statement is truly insane @shoreglasscleaners. An employer pays employees for results, not for time. It’s a prerequisite for anyone who works in my office to brush their teeth, tie their shoes, shower, and breath oxygen. I suppose I should start paying everyone for the time they spend to do those things… right?
Everything that has gotten humanity to where it is today is because of RESULTS not because of time. Time is worthless by itself. The true value is what you do with the time… what you PRODUCE. Farmers starve if they don’t produce results; no one cares if you spent 100 hours sowing apple seeds. We only care about the apple that is produced, whether it took 100 hours or 10 hours.
I agree with @anon82274079 quote below. Entitlement is a whole different topic I think but does tie in to this discussion.
Paying by the hour works in very large and very complicated organizations because it is EASY. Imagine Honda trying to pay assembly line workers based on a % of what the Honda Civic they assembled sells for… it would be nearly impossible to track accurately and figure out what is profitable, fair, etc. So default to hourly and let the company benefit if a certain model sells better; not the assembly line worker. (I acknowledge there are profit sharing programs, bonuses, and so on that do factor in as well but I am talking about the general idea here.)
The most highly compensated people in any organization are the commissioned sales people. Why? because their pay is directly tied to RESULTS.
I went over the time with one of my helpers yesterday. At the end of the day I realized this and paid him an hours pay and plus. He said don’t worry but I put it in my notes what happened and his response. I hope that covers it, should I get an audit but I understand the Atlanta issue-I’m sometimes spread out, I’m getting better (my guys might beg to differ) about getting things in the same zip.
Communicating with the client (CRM(TCF-for me)) before appointments helps, a heads up goes a long way towards happy customers and employees.
You could also require some business responsibilities from them, such as call backs or cold calls. You can teach them to sell if they dont know, and pass them 5- 10 for anything they get over a certain amount, such as 250 for a house or something like that.
Sounds to me a lot of these guys need a break. In between jobs is fine. Most of our business is seasonal so why waste even 30 minutes dining in a restaurant? You have to walk in wait 5 minutes, get drinks, wait 10 minutes to order, wait 15 minutes for food. Thats 30 min right there then eat , stare at each other waiting for the bill, cash out. Sitting down is sitting down eat in the truck, framers, roofers, heating and air, drywall, landscapers, concrete guys all eat in the truck.
Just dont even show up to work if your not ready to work all day.
Lol. So you think the ONLY break your guys should get is on the ride to the job or home?
Pretty sure state and federal laws would disagree with you and be happy to fine you and show you the error of your ways.
In my state, and I’m sure others, it is legal to forgo a first and third break period, in lieu of a 20 minute paid break in the middle of the shift. I honestly do not think that the drive time is legal to consider “break”, unless it would fall about in the middle of the 8 hour shift. Even then, why push your luck?
If you act like a dictator, you will not have a happy crew, nor will they serve you well.
Everyone i work with is their own sub contractor so yes we all eat and drive. There are so many nice days and time is limited what do you need a break for? This job is so easy i dont know how you would need a break? Do you guys take naps on your break?
So then you don’t have employees, nor do you know what your legal responsibilities ARE. Don’t really care if you agree or not, the law says when and who gets breaks. You are not above that, if you ever get to the point you employ people.
If you want to skip breaks, go for it. You can’t do that to employees.
Quit saying they are subs ! They are Employees ( In almost every case ). Saying they are " Sub-Contractors " does not make it so. This model is overused and abused and really reduces the legitimacy of small, service oriented companies. This is not a subjective argument ! The rules for who is and who is not a Sub / Employee is clearly laid out here ( Below ). Those who abuse this are really pushing the limits of risk and liability.
That link should be a pinned post. I don’t know if the forum can have pinned posts but it sure would help.
Business owners need to classify and pay their employees properly. The employees are supposed to get employer contributions to Social Security, Medicare and unemployment and be covered by Workers Comp.
Hello, I have seen you comment on other posts about subs, ever have a sub charge per hour then wants to go on a lunch for hours? This is why all of my guys are subs. I try to say " hey do you want this job it will take 4 hours or less, if you go over its on you" It takes them a few hours then lunch then they come back late then it ends up being all day.
The rule is if they drive them self to the job they are a sub, if you mainly pick them up or you meet at a shop and drive them to a job they are your employee. All cleaners are 10-99. Also you will find this similar with medical billing companies. They will all wear company shirts, they will all work in the same office but they will all drive themselves to the job and be 10-99 at the end of the year. This is a real thing and its legal. To customers these people seem like employees but they are all subs. This is what the world is coming to with high insurance costs. I work with hundreds of business who do this. Also most business prefer this you should listen to 4 Hour Work Week ( a e book ) where a lot of people are working for companies but from at home or out of the country. Listen and see.
Got to be honest here. You sound like you are full of crap. No one in my area pulls that “they drive to the job site, there for they are a sub”.
If you tell them when they are to show up, provide their tools, make them wear your company clothing, etc., they ARE your employee.
Are all these subs providing you a copy of their liability insurance? Are they submitting to you, an invoice for their work performed? Of coarse they are not. They are employees, not subs.
